Our National History Museum is a flag made by the British in Battle of Vuelta de Obligado, was returned to the nation. But the history of this return is as emotional as unknown and this paper aims to do is tell it what not with the fervor that any Argentine would like, but with a document that 40 years later, wrote one of the commanders of the invading force Admiral Sullivan , which on October 26, 1883, - and old - was presented to the Argentine Consulate in London to return a Great Flag Argentina. The document stated:
"In the battle of the Parana Obligado October 20, 1845 an officer who commanded the main battery (it was the Manuelita) caused the admiration of the British officers who were closest to him, by the manner in which he encouraged his men and kept them at the bottom of the canyons during a heavy crossfire under which this battery was exposed. For more than 6 hours set out its entire body. For wounded prisoners was learned later that Colonel Ramon Rodriguez Patricios Regiment of Buenos Aires. When the gunners were killed, he maneuvered the guns to the infantry and he put the shot. When the fighting was over he had lost 500 men killed and wounded of the 800 that he commanded. When our forces landed in the afternoon and took the battery, with the remains of his strength began to rear, under the crossfire of all vessels who were behind the battery, defending it with weapons. Battery flag was lowered by one of the men under my command and I was given by the senior British officer. To be lowered fell on some bodies of the fallen and was stained with his blood.
I return to Colonel Ramon Rodriguez if living, or else Patricios Regiment of Buenos Aires if it exists, the flag under which and noble defense of his country many of which fall at that time it was composed. If Colonel Rodriguez has died and if there Patricios Regiment, I would ask any of the surviving members of his family to accept it in memory of her and very wild behavior him, his officers and soldiers in Obligado. Those who fought against him and had witnessed their dedication and bravery had great and sincere pleasure to know that had emerged unscathed to the end of the action. " Admiral Sullivan
The flag was sent to Buenos Aires, and later, when in doubt that the name of Colonel Rodriguez as a defender of the flag, has been released by mistake from Sullivan, the son of Juan Bautista Thorne makes Mr. Victor J. consultation Elizalde, star of the Battle of Bound, who replied on 21 April 1891 in these terms:
"In response to your very appreciable in 20 of these calls as I combatant and eyewitness in the memorable battle of Bound to certify while later you some background on the behavior observed his late father Colonel Thorne during the action, as was also Colonel Ramon Rodriguez, head of some batteries that were formed to resist the powerful enemy that attacked us, I will tell you: That the Colonel
Thorne was occupied by General Mansilla in the construction and management of the fortifications, as also was given command of the battery "Manuelita", from which withdrew after the other batteries had burned their last cartridge.
I'll tell you more: the brave and serene conduct of his father deserved the commander in chief and all his companions, the approval and applause, by the fact that left no merlon of your battery, and if he did, was when he saw that his gunners however, did not complete and accurate target. Constam
also summoned him twice to suspend the order to fire and withdraw from the battery, but he replied: "imposing their guns to fire him until victory or death", deserving of the contempt the man who was arrested in the convent of San Lorenzo where he was wounded and transported deaf. General Mansilla spot went to visit and congratulate him on his behavior, leaving the order to withdraw that his arrest was lifted.
In regard to Colonel Ramon Rodriguez, will tell you that this chief had no other role than to stay at the entrance of the mountain, which he left when we had no defenders in the batteries and the enemy landed giving the most candid and superb load the bayonet, in front of his battalion militants in Buenos Aires. Wishing
that suits this show true, it presents very carefully. Victor J.
Elizalde.
Juan Bautista Thorne.
JBThorne (biography)
With the same object, the son of historian Adolfo Thorne Saldías consulted, that the April 21, 1891 in the following replies terms:
"Dear friend:
In response to your esteemed letter of 20 this month in which you served me for my opinion whether it was Colonel Colonel Ramon Rodriguez and Juan B. Thorne, who commanded a battery in the battle of Forced against allied fleets of Great Britain and France and who was the last to be pulled out of that glorious battle, tell him I was Colonel Thorne.
Colonel Rodriguez, Assistant Army Officer worthy of Peru and the Republicans against the Empire of Brazil, battery not send any obligations.
As is documented in my "History and the Confederation Rozas Argentina, there were four such batteries, commanded respectively by Major Alzogaray, by Lieutenant Brown, Lieutenant Parker and the far left by Colonel J. Thorne. Colonel Rodriguez had command of the battalion Patricios of Buenos Aires and was on the far right flank, there being in that line to their orders rather than four guns under the command of Lieutenant José Serez. Fighting began
naturally against the right batteries, broken the chain that held the boats that were cut-off line to the passage of the river, the fire of the French and English focused on the left. At four in the afternoon, the batteries had burned almost all cartridges and the plague and the ravages of defeat taught the Argentines. But Thorne said battery even more than an hour. Gave them to the order to withdraw and said its remaining ammunition. Retirósele the order, and then, since merlon standing on the battery and going to harangue the poor soldiers, crashed into earth.
The "Philomel" commanded by Captain Sullivan and coming cutting edge, operated landing on the coast and that was when he took the flag of Argentina battery. The battalion flag of Argentina Buenos Aires Patrick was taken by the French sailors and exists in the Paris hospital of invalids.
It is doubtful, moreover, that a head of the relevant qualities of Colonel Rodriguez would have been able to action that is the Admiral Sullivan, but precisely because of their age and their conditions, and the first moments that followed the chief command of the leaderless, the wound produced fell to General Mansilla, was Colonel Rodriguez who took it over, personally leading a bayonet charge on the British and French landed when put out the fires of the three batteries right the center. The Allies landed in front of the battery on the left who commanded Thorne but the late afternoon, when there was no longer the cannon thunder Argentina. This same communication
Admiral Sullivan Argentine consul in London, was published in the National Tribune of December 22 d 1883, and there is more to look at the details given as chivalrous officer, and that is perfectly corroborated by documents and even by witnesses who survived, to ensure that they cover not Colonel Rodriguez, but Colonel Thorne. Argentina
Consul, Mr Guerrico, relative, as I have understood, of Colonel Rodriguez, perhaps for lack of data could not rectify the truth of the facts, rather than repeat, Colonel Rodriguez was not necessary to take glory to his fellow to pick the one that collected containing the winners with a magnificent bayonet charge, at the head of his militia of Buenos Aires. I
SS Adolf Saldías attentive.
We see these two men have had plenty of heroism to be filled with glory with all the defenders of national sovereignty in the Vuelta de Obligado.
Extracted from: The gazeta, a page to visit.
Link in the right column of my blog.
"In the battle of the Parana Obligado October 20, 1845 an officer who commanded the main battery (it was the Manuelita) caused the admiration of the British officers who were closest to him, by the manner in which he encouraged his men and kept them at the bottom of the canyons during a heavy crossfire under which this battery was exposed. For more than 6 hours set out its entire body. For wounded prisoners was learned later that Colonel Ramon Rodriguez Patricios Regiment of Buenos Aires. When the gunners were killed, he maneuvered the guns to the infantry and he put the shot. When the fighting was over he had lost 500 men killed and wounded of the 800 that he commanded. When our forces landed in the afternoon and took the battery, with the remains of his strength began to rear, under the crossfire of all vessels who were behind the battery, defending it with weapons. Battery flag was lowered by one of the men under my command and I was given by the senior British officer. To be lowered fell on some bodies of the fallen and was stained with his blood.
I return to Colonel Ramon Rodriguez if living, or else Patricios Regiment of Buenos Aires if it exists, the flag under which and noble defense of his country many of which fall at that time it was composed. If Colonel Rodriguez has died and if there Patricios Regiment, I would ask any of the surviving members of his family to accept it in memory of her and very wild behavior him, his officers and soldiers in Obligado. Those who fought against him and had witnessed their dedication and bravery had great and sincere pleasure to know that had emerged unscathed to the end of the action. " Admiral Sullivan
The flag was sent to Buenos Aires, and later, when in doubt that the name of Colonel Rodriguez as a defender of the flag, has been released by mistake from Sullivan, the son of Juan Bautista Thorne makes Mr. Victor J. consultation Elizalde, star of the Battle of Bound, who replied on 21 April 1891 in these terms:
"In response to your very appreciable in 20 of these calls as I combatant and eyewitness in the memorable battle of Bound to certify while later you some background on the behavior observed his late father Colonel Thorne during the action, as was also Colonel Ramon Rodriguez, head of some batteries that were formed to resist the powerful enemy that attacked us, I will tell you: That the Colonel
Thorne was occupied by General Mansilla in the construction and management of the fortifications, as also was given command of the battery "Manuelita", from which withdrew after the other batteries had burned their last cartridge.
I'll tell you more: the brave and serene conduct of his father deserved the commander in chief and all his companions, the approval and applause, by the fact that left no merlon of your battery, and if he did, was when he saw that his gunners however, did not complete and accurate target. Constam
also summoned him twice to suspend the order to fire and withdraw from the battery, but he replied: "imposing their guns to fire him until victory or death", deserving of the contempt the man who was arrested in the convent of San Lorenzo where he was wounded and transported deaf. General Mansilla spot went to visit and congratulate him on his behavior, leaving the order to withdraw that his arrest was lifted.
In regard to Colonel Ramon Rodriguez, will tell you that this chief had no other role than to stay at the entrance of the mountain, which he left when we had no defenders in the batteries and the enemy landed giving the most candid and superb load the bayonet, in front of his battalion militants in Buenos Aires. Wishing
that suits this show true, it presents very carefully. Victor J.
Elizalde.
Juan Bautista Thorne.
JBThorne (biography)
With the same object, the son of historian Adolfo Thorne Saldías consulted, that the April 21, 1891 in the following replies terms:
"Dear friend:
In response to your esteemed letter of 20 this month in which you served me for my opinion whether it was Colonel Colonel Ramon Rodriguez and Juan B. Thorne, who commanded a battery in the battle of Forced against allied fleets of Great Britain and France and who was the last to be pulled out of that glorious battle, tell him I was Colonel Thorne.
Colonel Rodriguez, Assistant Army Officer worthy of Peru and the Republicans against the Empire of Brazil, battery not send any obligations.
As is documented in my "History and the Confederation Rozas Argentina, there were four such batteries, commanded respectively by Major Alzogaray, by Lieutenant Brown, Lieutenant Parker and the far left by Colonel J. Thorne. Colonel Rodriguez had command of the battalion Patricios of Buenos Aires and was on the far right flank, there being in that line to their orders rather than four guns under the command of Lieutenant José Serez. Fighting began
naturally against the right batteries, broken the chain that held the boats that were cut-off line to the passage of the river, the fire of the French and English focused on the left. At four in the afternoon, the batteries had burned almost all cartridges and the plague and the ravages of defeat taught the Argentines. But Thorne said battery even more than an hour. Gave them to the order to withdraw and said its remaining ammunition. Retirósele the order, and then, since merlon standing on the battery and going to harangue the poor soldiers, crashed into earth.
The "Philomel" commanded by Captain Sullivan and coming cutting edge, operated landing on the coast and that was when he took the flag of Argentina battery. The battalion flag of Argentina Buenos Aires Patrick was taken by the French sailors and exists in the Paris hospital of invalids.
It is doubtful, moreover, that a head of the relevant qualities of Colonel Rodriguez would have been able to action that is the Admiral Sullivan, but precisely because of their age and their conditions, and the first moments that followed the chief command of the leaderless, the wound produced fell to General Mansilla, was Colonel Rodriguez who took it over, personally leading a bayonet charge on the British and French landed when put out the fires of the three batteries right the center. The Allies landed in front of the battery on the left who commanded Thorne but the late afternoon, when there was no longer the cannon thunder Argentina. This same communication
Admiral Sullivan Argentine consul in London, was published in the National Tribune of December 22 d 1883, and there is more to look at the details given as chivalrous officer, and that is perfectly corroborated by documents and even by witnesses who survived, to ensure that they cover not Colonel Rodriguez, but Colonel Thorne. Argentina
Consul, Mr Guerrico, relative, as I have understood, of Colonel Rodriguez, perhaps for lack of data could not rectify the truth of the facts, rather than repeat, Colonel Rodriguez was not necessary to take glory to his fellow to pick the one that collected containing the winners with a magnificent bayonet charge, at the head of his militia of Buenos Aires. I
SS Adolf Saldías attentive.
We see these two men have had plenty of heroism to be filled with glory with all the defenders of national sovereignty in the Vuelta de Obligado.
Extracted from: The gazeta, a page to visit.
Link in the right column of my blog.
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